FAQ About The Condition of the Dead

18-08-2015 - Posted by Andre Piet

Please, first  read the article: Five facts about death

3. Is the soul immortal?
4. Is the belief that the dead have no consciousness, not very sad?
5. What did the Lord promise to the murderer on the cross?
6. Who believes lives anyway, even though he died?
7. How can you have eternal life and yet die?
8. What about consulting spirits of the dead?
9. Did Saul at Endor speak with the dead Samuel?
10. What does it mean that the Evangel was preached to the dead?
11. Who are the spirits in prison?
12. How could the rich man lift up his eyes in Hades?
13. Did the Lord Jesus at His ascension take along Hades?
14. Paul considered dying as a gain?
15. What did Paul mean by “being dissolved and to be with Christ”?
16. What about the appearance of Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration?
17. Did Enoch never die?
18. Did Elijah never die?
19. How can dead souls from under the altar call?
20. Do the the patriarchs live now?
21. Did Paul long to leave the body and be at home with the Lord?
22. Does the statement of Jesus about “not being able to kill the soul” support the doctrine of the immortal soul?
23. Have we no cloud of witnesses surrounding us?
24. Does Isaiah 14:9-11 not prove that the dead are conscious and are able to plan?
25. Ecclesiastes speaks only about matters “under the sun” and not about the imperceptible Hades, does it not?

3. Is the soul immortal?

No. the Bible, tells us the following:

The soul [Heb. “nephesh] that is sinning–it does die. Ezekiel 18:4,20

Indeed, You have extricated my soul from death, My eye from tears, My feet from foundering. Psalm 116:8

And forming is Yahweh Elohim the human of soil from the ground, and He is blowing into his nostrils the breath of the living, and becoming is the human a living soul. Genesis 2:7

When man gives up the breath of life again and returns to the ground, then he has become a dead soul. “Dead souls” is a expression that occurs a couple of times in the book of Leviticus (19:28, 21:1). Unfortunately this is not reflected in most translations). The idea of an immortal soul comes directly from Greek philosophy and NOT from Scripture.

4. Is the belief that the dead have no consciousness, not very sad?

Death is like a sleep from which they will awaken. When Paul writes to mourning believers about fellow-believers that have fallen asleep he says to them that they, one day (at the sounding of the trumpet) will rise up and will meet, with the remaining living, the Lord in the air. “Comfort one another with these words” (1Thessalonians 4:18, KJV). He, therefore, does not have the consolation that they are already with the Lord, but that they will meet the Lord, later on, together with many others.

5. What did the Lord promise to the murderer on the cross?

And He said to him: “Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise.” Luke 23:43

Crucial in the reading of this text is the place of the comma. We must remember that there are no commas in the original text. Do we move the comma, necessary in English (which is linguistically completely justified), then it does not say”… I tell you, today you will …” but “… I say unto thee today, thou shalt. .. “. The criminal said, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Then Jesus says to the man: I tell you now: you shall be with me in Paradise. One thing is certain: Jesus did, on the day He died, NOT go to Paradise, because that is above (2 Corinthians 12:2-4). Jesus went to “Hades, below,” says the Scripture (compare Acts 2:31 and Isaiah 14:9) Paradise is located in the New Jerusalem that will descend from heaven (cp Revelation. 2:7 and 22:2).

6. Who believes lives anyway, even though he died?

Jesus said to her, “I am the Resurrection and the Life. He who is believing in Me, even if he should be dying, shall be living. And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon. Are you believing this?” No, here it does not say that the dead man is alive, but “will live”, viz. In the resurrection, because that is the subject of which Jesus speaks.

7. How can you have eternal life and yet die?

“Eternal life” is the life of the age to come. To ‘have’ it is like ‘having’ an inheritance. According to a will you can have an inheritance, even though the actual receipt of it takes place at a much later date. So it is with the ‘eternal life’, the believer now has it now (de jure), but receives it (de facto) later.

Now Peter said, “Lo! we, leaving our own, follow Thee.” Now He said to them, “Verily, I am saying to you that there is no one who leaves house, or wife, or brothers, or parents, or children on account of the kingdom of God, who may not by all means be GETTING back manifold in this era, AND IN THE COMING EON, LIFE EONIAN.” Luke 18:28-30

8. What about consulting spirits of the dead?

Of consulting the dead, Scripture, (among other things) has this to say:

or charming with charms, one asking of a medium or wizard or inquiring after the dead. For anyone doing these things is an abhorrence to Yahweh your Elohim. Deuteronomy 18:11,12

And Saul dies because of his trespass that he trespassed against Yahweh, against the word of Yahweh that he kept not, and also for asking at a familiar spirit–to inquire,–and he inquired not at Yahweh, and He puts him to death, and turns round the kingdom to David, son of Jesse. 1Chronicles 10:13,14

And in case they shall say to you,  “Inquire of the mediums, and of the ventriloquists, and of the wizards, the chirpers and the cooers,”  Should not a people of its Elohim inquire? Who inquires about the living of the dead? Isaiah 8:19

Since the dead are really dead (= can do nothing), spirits who present themselves at spiritualist meetings have to have a dark background. That explains the unprecedented strong disapproval  of spiritualism in Scripture. Spiritualism puts man in touch with lying spirits (= demons, 1 Timothy 4:1). Be warned: the doctrine that the dead are not really dead, but live in a different way, opens the door to spiritualism. All religions are based on this basic, false idea and for that reason are an open door for demons. (1Corinthians 10:20)

9. Did Saul speak with the dead Samuel, at Endor?

The appearance at Endor is a special case. This is evident in particular from the fact that the fortune teller lets out “a loud cry”, once she sees the appearance (1Sam.28:12). What she saw, she was not used to seeing in previous spiritualist seances. What is very remarkable, is what the woman first said she was seeing: “I see gods arise” (Heb. Elohim; 1Sam.28:13.) That it is indeed God Himself who takes the reins in hand, is also evident from the fact that the appearance, with precision, knows what would happen to Saul the next day. In other words, it is God Himself who at Endor appears as Samuel.

10. What does it mean that the Evangel was preached to the dead?

For to this end also was to the dead the Evangel preached, that they according to man, as far as the flesh is concerned might be judged, but according to God, in the spirit, might live. 1 Peter 4:6

The Evangel was not preached to them being dead, but was brought to the dead in their lifetime, namely. Peter is talking about people who have heard the Evangel during their lifetime, but who have died, in the meantime. People judge them according to the flesh but to God they will live. In Chp.3:18, it is said that Christ was slain in the flesh, but is vivified in spirit. In the preceding verse (4:5) reference is made to “Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead”, i.e. those who are now living and those who are now dead. On the occasion of the judgment, the dead will all be resurrected. This is also true with respect to those to whom the Evangel was preached. It is about those who are now dead, but to whom the Evangel was preached, namely, when they were still alive.

11. Who are the spirits in prison?

seeing that Christ also, for our sakes, once died concerning sins, the just for the sake of the unjust, that He may be leading us to God; being put to death, indeed, in flesh, yet vivified in spirit, in which, being gone to the spirits in jail also, He heralds to those once stubborn, when the patience of God awaited in the days of Noah… 1Peter 3:18-20

Nowhere in the Bible are people called “spirits.” Peter refers here to “the sons of God” who had intercourse with “the daughters of men” (Genesis 6:1-4). This blending of heavenly creatures and people was the immediate cause of the flood in Noah’s day. Jude 6 also refers to these spirits with the information that: “angels who were unfaithful to their origins and left their own estate”. Since the judgment of the flood (in which all people were killed), these spirits are kept in custody. Also in 2Pet.2:4 reference to these spirits is made. After his resurrection, Christ has also proclaimed His triumph to them.

12. How could the rich man lift up his eyes in Hades?

And in the unseen, lifting up his eyes, existing in torments, he is seeing Abraham from afar, and Lazarus in his bosom. Luke 16:23

If we should take this part literally, then it is in outright conflict with e.g. Ecclesiastes 9:10, which expressly state that there is no work nor device, nor knowledge in the grave. Here, after all, someone lifts up his eyes in Hades and is considering various aspects of what he sees. Again, if we have to understand this part literally, the following questions clamour fpr an answer: * Have people in Hades (i.e. before the resurrection) already a body?    (After all, we read of pain, eye, tongue, finger, etc.) * If so, what purpose then is the resurrection? * Are there literally flames in Hades? * Is there communication between those in Hades with those who are on the good side? * Do the righteous, in their consolation (!?) Have a view of those who are  tormented in Hades? All these questions will disappear like snow in the sun, when we see that, here, a parable is told (like three times previously already in Chapter 15 and 16 – see 15:1). A parable is not a story that clarifies anything, but only hides truths (Matthew 13:13). See elaborated explanation: the rich man and Lazarus

13. Did the Lord Jesus at His ascension take along Hades?

Wherefore He is saying, Ascending on high, He captures captivity And gives gifts to mankind. Ephesians 4:8

That here, it would be about people, from out of Hades who were carried with Him to heaven, is an idea that is read into this text. The context of Ephesians 4 points in a different direction. The prisoner of war (the prison) stands for the Church, which shares the position of Christ on “high”. In Ephesians 4:1, Paul writes: “As the prisoner of the Lord, I beseech you…”.

14. Paul considered dying to be gain?

….that in nothing shall I be put to shame, but with all boldness, as always, now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether through life or through death. For to me to be living is Christ, and to be dying, gain. Philippians 1:20,21

Here it is all about the gain for Christ. Christ would be magnified in Paul’s death.  Besides, even for the believers, dying is (indirectly) a gain, because for them, the next conscious moment will sound the trumpet! It is a matter of closing your eyes and opening them again… even if on earth, meanwhile, thousands of years pass.

15. What did Paul mean by “being dissolved and to be with Christ”?

Now if it is to be living in flesh, this to me means fruit from work, and what I shall be preferring I am not making known. (Yet I am being pressed out of the two, having a yearning for the solution and to be together with Christ, for it, rather, is much better.) Yet to be staying in the flesh is more necessary because of you. Philippians 1:22-24

Paul first mentions two options: stay alive or die. and which of the two he himself prefers, he does not say. What he does make known is that he longs to go and depart and be with Christ. The latter is by far the best. With “depart” (Greek ana’luo) Paul does not mean to die. This third option refers to the time that the Lord Jesus Christ will come from the heavens, and will conform our vile bodies to His glorious body (Phil.3:20,21). That is “to depart and be with Christ,” which is the subject of  Philippians 1:23.

16. What about the appearance of Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration?

Jesus calls the scene after a “vision” (Matt.17:9). It is the same word (Gr. horama) as what is used in Acts 10:17, for the vision that Peter received, when he was praying on the roof. We must realize that if Moses and Elijah were already glorified in heaven, that then Christ cannot be the firstfruit and neither be the only One having immortality (1 Corinthians 15:23; 1 Timothy 6:16).

17. Did Enoch never die?

By faith Enoch was transferred, so as not to be acquainted with death, and was not found, because God transfers him. For before his transference he is attested to have pleased God well. Enoch was transferred (in Greek the same word as in Acts 7:16: “transferred”) that he should not see death. When it says that Enoch was transferred so he would not see death, you cannot take this for a natural, old-age death, because he was not ready for a long time (he was not nearly half of the age his son would achieve). Enoch was apparently transferred to keep him from a violent death. The wicked people against whom Enoch prophesied (see Jude: 14,15), sought to kill him and that is why God has transferred or moved him. It is not a question of whether or not Enoch would never see death, but God spared him for an early, violent death. Enoch disappeared. Where to, we do not know. We do know that he eventually died. After all, it is said in Hebrews 11:13, “in that faith, these all died.” Also Enoch. It is inconceivable that Enoch ascended to heaven, because “no one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man” (John 3:13).

18. Did Elijah never die?

There is an important indication that Elijah, just as Enoch, was transferred  and returned again to earth. Think about it: Elijah’s ascension took place when Jehoshaphat reigned over Judah (2 Kings 3:11-12). When his son Joram became king in his place (2 Chronicles 21:1), he receives a letter:

And there comes in unto him a writing from Elijah the prophet, saying, `Thus said Yahweh, Elohim of David your father, Because that you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father, …’ 2Chronicles 21:12

Conclusion: Elijah was obviously moved from the atmosphere to a place on earth (where we know nothing of) and from there, years later, wrote a letter to King Joram. Jesus’ explicit statement that no one ascended to heaven but ONLY the Son of Man, remains true. And also that of Paul: “Death has gone to all men” (Romans 5:12). Also to Elijah.

19. How can dead souls from under the altar call?

And when It opens the fifth seal, I perceived underneath the altar the souls of those who have been slain because of the word of God and because of the testimony which they had. And they cry with a loud voice, saying, “Till when, O Owner, holy and true, art Thou not judging and avenging our blood on those dwelling on the earth?” And to each of them was given a white robe, and it was declared to them that they should be resting still a little time, till their number should be completed by their fellow slaves also, and their brethren, who are about to be killed even as they were. Revelation 6:9-11

We are reading here about souls under the altar, who were slain and who are calling. They are truly ‘victims’. Under a literal altar is seen literal blood of sacrifices. But in this vision it speaks of a figurative altar and there is seen no blood, but souls are there. That is in the Biblical parlance synonymous.

for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make a propitiatory shelter over your souls on the altar; for the blood, in the soul …. Leviticus 17:11

Blood can also “speak”:

And saying is the Elohim,  “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground. Genesis 4:10

And to Jesus, the Mediator of a fresh covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling which is speaking better than Abel. Hebrews 12:24

The call for revenge of the souls under the altar (Revelation 6) can be understood the same way as the blood of Abel that, at one time, also “called.” Not literally, but figuratively.

20. Do the the patriarchs live now?

Now THAT THE DEAD ARE ROUSING, even Moses divulges at the thorn bush, as he is terming the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. Now God is He, not of the dead, but of the living, for all, to Him, are living.” Luke 20:37,38

Jesus shows these Sadducees (who deny the resurrection; Acts 23: 8) from the Torah, that the dead will be resurrected. After all, the Lord calls Himself still the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, and even now after these men have long been deceased. To God these men live, even though they “sleep at this time”. Soon they will be awakened from the sleep (compare John 11: 11-13).. Jesus’ statement refers to the resurrection and not an intermediate state, between death and resurrection.

21. Did Paul long to leave the body and be at home with the Lord?

yet we are encouraged, and are delighting rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord. 2Corinthians 5:8

By “body” Paul means this body, the earthly tent in which we now live. Two verses earlier, after all, we read:

Being, then, courageous always, and aware that, being at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord. 2Corinthians 5:6

In this section we see two houses: (1) “the earthly tent in which we live” and (2) an “eonian home” (5: 1), which is the new body.  Paul longed “to be clothed with our habitation from heaven” (5:2), i.e. to be changed from mortal to immortal, without havng to die. In the case of dying, he would “be found naked” (5:3-5) i.e. be without clothing (= body). Paul wanted to take up residence with the Lord, in his “eonian home” (= in his new body)..

22. Does the statement of Jesus about “not being able to kill the soul” support the doctrine of the immortal soul?

“And do not fear those who are killing the body, yet are not able to kill the soul. Yet be fearing Him, rather, Who is able to destroy the soul as well as the body in Gehenna [= the valley of Hinnom]. Matthew 10:28

In question 3, we had already seen that the Bible speaks, in many places, of dying and dead souls. That is the objective side. However, looked at from the perception (psyche) of the person who dies, the answer is very different. In the subjective experience, death does not “exist”. Death and resurrection take place in a fraction of a second. If the disciples were to be killed, they would (in their experience – the soul) the next moment be awakened into the glory of the coming eon. Unlike those who will be executed in the Kingdom of Peace (see last verse of Isaiah).

23. Have we no cloud of witnesses surrounding us?

Surely, in consequence, then, we also, having so vast a cloud of witnesses encompassing us, putting off every impediment and the popular sin, may be racing with endurance the contest lying before us, Hebrew 12:1

Some conclude from this verse that all the people mentioned in Hebrews 11 are witnesses of all our doings and actions. That is a misunderstanding. A witness, here, is not an observer, but someone with a witness. And of the testimonies in the previous chapter, an impressive array of examples are given. Still, all these have not yet received the promise and they will not reach perfection without us (11:39,40). So, all the above named believers are still in Hades and cannot observe us from their position, but nevertheless, they speak to us, even after they have died (compare Heb. 11:4). And this is why they are a cloud of witnesses surrounding us.

24. Does Isaiah 14:9-11 not prove that the dead are conscious and are able to plan?

No, Isaiah writes here a “satirical song” In verse 8, Isaiah says that the cypresses rejoice, and the cedars of Lebanon, speak out against the king of Babylon. Obviously this is symbolic. Immediately following, Isaiah says that even the dead would get agitated and kings would rise up, once the king of Babylon would enter. The character of metaphor and satire is very evident. Realistically, it is again for Isaiah, when he says, “the worm is spread under you, and maggots are your covering” (14:11).

25. Ecclesiastes speaks only about matters “under the sun” and not about the imperceptible Hades, right?

The Preacher does indeed make explicit statements about “Hades whither thou goest” (9:10). THERE is “no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom.” Only under divine inspiration, could he record “words of truth” (12:10).

Delen: